Category: Let's talk
I thought about putting this on several boards. The rant board, because I'm about to discuss something I genuinely don't understand and am at the moment feeling frustrated with. Then I thought about daily living, since it's about mobility, but I'm not looking for tips and tricks. I'm hoping maybe someone can explain something to me, or at least, help me see this from another perspective, even if I still don't agree.
It seems that lately I'm talking to more and more blind people that travel with no mobility aid whatsoever. Mind you, these aren't people with high partial vision. Most of them are totally blind, or have very small amounts of light perception. They travel pretty much all the time with sighted friends or family, and so believe that they never need to use a cane, dog, or any type of mobility device at all. I have one friend who is traveling by airplane tomorrow to visit Mark and I, and said something today about not bringing a cane with her. I absolutely do not get this. this leaves the blind person completely and utterly dependent on those around them. What happens if they get separated from that sighted friend, family member, or whoever happens to be assisting them? What happens if, while waiting somewhere, like an airport, a blind person needs something, and needs to go seek out assistance? How do you do that with no cane, no dog, no anything? If the blind person is separated from their sighted companion and needs help, there's nothing that even identifies them to alert the general public that they are blind. That identification alone will usually draw someone over to offer help, needed or not.
I've tried to ask the multiple people like this why they travel this way. Their answer is they're totally comfortable being with and depending on that sighted friend or family member, and totally content not going places alone. When I've asked what they would do in case of being separated from their sighted companion, they say they just can't imagine that happening. Are people really this clueless?
Yes, I often travel with sighted friends or family, but even when I do, I have my cane. I'm almost always actualy using it, but even if I weren't, (though I can't think of times like this), I would at least have it on my person. I"m not talking aout needing my cane in my own house, or even to just go up to my mailbox, which is pretty much straight down the hall. I'm talking about prolonged travel in public, to unfamiliar places. I just can't imagine doing this without using, or at the very least carrying my cane.
So, there's the rant portion of my post. Now the question. Do any of you travel most of the time without any mobility aid like cane or dog? IF so, what makes you do this? To everyone else, do any of you know blind people like this, and can you somehow explain this mode of travel in a way that might make it make sense to me? Thanks!
A lot of times, I can't use a cane and push my manual chair. When I use the motorized one, I sometimes forget, but I need to keep better ttrack, and make sure there's a cane with me.
I'd go nuts, without assistive devices. If I could get a guide that would help me with my chair, and not by pulling it, I would. Access to such dog guides is more and more limitted.
Blessings,
Sarah
I know a couple.
They claim the same thing. “you won’t leave me, so.”
Well, no, I’ll not unless I can’t help it, but then what?
Even when I have told them to bring the cane and use it on the side I’m not guiding them on they won’t, and sometimes I’ll miss judge say a post…
It still doesn’t matter.
If I’m going in my neighborhood to a place I’m confident I can get home without my cane, I will leave it home and walk with my sighted friend.
Never ever with another blind person though.
Otherwise, I’m like you. I carry it even if I’m not using it.
well, I always travel with my cane unless in a school building because in that
school building, I know whare everytinng is. But, even if a sighted friend is
with me, I use my cane and take it anywhare I go with family. and, I had that
same question, too, alicia.
I think there are a few different issue here.
1. the high level of dependency, maybe til the point that they think, for them to carry a cane will take away some of the dependency they might have with their friends or family or whoever that is helping them.
2. the perception of using a mobility aides will make me as different. although, relying someone for help does not make it any better either.
3. their own self-stigmatization with the cane or dog. where, if I use the cane, people will think me as someone who is unable, compare if I don't use cane or dog, the whole stereotype around blindness and cane and mobility aids in general.
4. the fear of not able to get assistant while using cane or dog. After all, cane or dog simblelize some sort of level of independent. It is much easier for me to not use anything, and ask for assistant than showing others that I can be independent, and limited the level of assistant that I might get.
5. purely laziness. it takes a lot of concerntration with the cane, or with the dog. it is much easier to let other to have that responsibility taking care of you than you be the one who responsible for your own.
Well, in the case of my friend who is coming to visit, I told her that I certainly couldn't force her to use a cane, and obviously wouldn't force it even if I could. But I did tell her that given that she will be going places with me and Mark, who are both blind, I would personally feel a lot more comfortable if she'd at least carry it on her. We'll see what she does. In the end it's her choice, but I don't get it.
I admit to being one of those people who prefers not using my cane if I have a sighted person to walk with. I know that there may be a situation where I might get separated from them, but as this has never happened, I tend to get lazy and think it will never happen. However, if I were coming to visit two blind friends, I would definitely bring my cane since I wouldn't have a sighted guide.
If I'm walking with someone sighted, I have my cane in my pocket.
Now, Alicia, you have said elsewhere that you had a cane since you were 4 years old.
Interesting for some of us, using a cane was seen as a downgrade as kids, you're supposed to be able to compensate with other senses and the like. Even getting punished for it.
Now with young people, teenagers and the like, it is true that the sighted person doesn't want to be seen with someone with a cane, hence "put that thing away" or "don't bring it at all." I experienced a lot of that.
Now, as a responsible adult, I generally bring my cane. When I was younger, I didn't always have it with me, but I wasn't clinging to someone's arm at all times either.
All I can say to you is that you have the right to say you won't help someone who's blind get around if they don't have a cane. I have exercised my right to go ahead and help that person. But that was my right, and your right to refuse is just as valid. You need to understand that you are under no obligation to do anything.
I think the situation is arguably way more complex than most will recognize. I only wish I had had a collapsible or folding cane when I was a kid. Because the blind kid in that scenario is the decided minority. And if that blind kid has, say, an older sister who is offended by the image of the cane, the blind kid may be choice restricted.
As an adult, you are less restricted, depending on where you are and what opportunities you have for independently coming and going as you will.
It's all well and good for us who live in highly urbanized areas to make claims, but for suburban and rural people who can't come and go without negotiating a ride first, things are far more difficult. I've done both. And when you're in a situation where you are in deficit, you need the ride, the ride provider has the advantage. That doesn't mean the provider is wrong, it's merely a question of economy.
I've been in both situations. And to be honest, presented with the choice of live with movement restrictions or die, I would choose to die.
I don't think it's always the blind person's choice, although they may build up a justification around it. Anyone who is in deficit of one kind or another, has to comply with the provider who has the monopoly on the resource. In this case, movement. Some people don't want to transport your cane or your dog.
Now I do reiterate, because it bears reiterating, Alicia: You are under absolutely no obligation to transport a blind person who has deliberately left their cane behind. Can you? Sure. and I have. That doesn't make me better or worse than you, it merely proves the one who has the resource ultimately has the right. So long as you fully understand and embrace that, I don't see a problem. And you are in an urban area where as blind people we can come and go, take public transport or just use your feet.
I just happen to think the issues are a lot more complex than most people realize. And I do realize that my views regarding myself are a bit extreme. I know why I have them, and I blame nobody. I take full responsibility for them, but they are what they are. Freedom of movement is extremely precious to me. I don't understand how someone could choose to live a restricted existence, save for what I did to further my economic situation once, and the second time to further my daughter's high school education.
Because my view is arguably extreme, and I am arguably very biased, I question a blind person who claims to choose to live in a restricted area where they can't come and go as they wish. As soon as the resource provider of transportation runs out, you are figuratively dead. I would rather opt out permanently than live in that situation again. Only because I know what it does to me. I sympathize with people who do live in that situation, in large part because I don't really believe they choose to live like that, all things being equal.
Even sighted guides can overlook things, and be less than ideal. (My mom and sister are among the worst sighted guides, ever, and they should know better! My sister only wants me to hold loosely onto her wrist, and we all know how effective that is.) I would never walk outside my own yard without a cane. I'll take the dogs out, caneless, but that's in a well known area, and as far as I'd go without a stick.
And it's really unfair and asking far too much of other blind friends to expect them to not only navigate, clear for themselves, then do so for a second body hanging on their arm! How inconsiderate! ShadowCat, you have every right to insist that this visitor bring and carry a cane. You don't want to be responsible for an injury, and surely your friend should understand that you don't want to pay for the stitches she may need!
I was walking with another totally blind friend, once, I was guiding, and she had a cane in hand. I'm not sure she was doing anything but carrying it, and I was doing my best to check the path for us both, but she still bashed her forehead on a tree limb, and burst into tears. I felt just terrible, but I'd have felt a lot worse if she hadn't at least had a cane.
I like to walk sighted guide, whenever I can, too, and I realize that we aren't all equally competent travelers, but everyone should do the basics of looking out for themselves, even so.
Cane's with me all the time, guide or no guide.
I feel naked without my cane. lol
Leo and I seem to be living in parallel universes. I think most of that has to do with the fact that I'm only a few years younger than he and so was raised with many of the same philosophies. He inspires me because I know that there is indeed light at the end of this tunnel I call living where I must for the sake of my child's education. lol Leo, I always appreciate how you stick up for those of us who choose to make that decision. Only 5 and a half more years to go. Keep counting. Just keep counting. lol
Oops, I just highjacked this thread.
I almost always have my cane with me when I go somewhere. It may be in my purse but it is within easy reach. I mean, seriously, what if I have to go to the bathroom in public? Who the hell wants to have to feel around a public bathroom? Yuck!
I do remember being in my teens and having my dad be embarrassed by my cane. I remember how hurtful that was at the time because I was just starting to accept the fact that I would need it to be independent. Perhaps your friend is dealing with something like that? I've always gone with the philosophy that I'm going to stick out no matter what I do so I'd rather stick out for being that blind woman using a cane than stick out because I was that blind dumb ass who knocked over a display of wine bottles. lol
Bounce her off a tree and see if she wants to borrow a spare after that.
Rude, Ed... rude.
I'm pullin' for ya, Domestic Goddess.
I think you must be right on the money here.
Ooh, I know someone else who did the wine bottles thing, I think there's even a recording of it.
For me, it depends on the situation. For example, if Mom is in town and takes me to the grocery store. I almost never take my cane. I'll be on her arm or have my hand on the grocery cart the entire time anyway, not just for the guidance, but also because if she's going to talk to me, I need to be close enough to hear her. Also, now that my hearing is what it is, (or isn't,) even if I use a cane, I have almost no sense of direction and can't tell where anything is. This has not always been the case for me. When I was in junior high and high school, my mobility was pretty darn good. I could take busses and transfer from one to the other at the shelters downtown, so this total lack of ability to gauge my surroundings is absolutely terrifying to me... but I got sidetracked. In short, the cane won't do much more than be a signal that I need help, and it just gets in the way when I have to start carrying things on one arm and holding on to her arm with the other. With my iPhone, Braille display and god only knows what else, I've got enough to deal with.
If I take the van to a doctor's appointment or something, you bet I would never, ever, be without my cane. If I travelled to an unfamiliar place, with no garontee of help, I won't be without it either.
But surely you can use your fm system at the store? That's what I do. I don't mean to be pushy, just an idea. The only issue is a little interference from whatever gadgets they have in the entryway that cause hearing aids to buzz a little.
Sure I can, but you've used FM systems enough to know that when you use one of those, you have even less of a sense of direction than you have if you don't. So, let's put you in the store with your FM system. You're using your cane and someone else has the microphone. They're walking across the store saying, "Folow me. Come this way." can you do it? Do tell.
Also, let me add here that my hearing aids, (nor my fM system,) is Bluetooth, so the only way to use it is with the telecoil. Probably not the most convenient. As it is right now, I can either use the fM ystem, or the microphones on my aids, so if I use the fM system, the only thing I hear is what's being picked up by the microphone. While this is a good thing in some situations, it is not a safe way to travel, in my opinion.
If I had other disabilities in addition to my blindness, I would probably rely much much more on sighted assistance. I have no contempt for those in that situation.
Leo, I didn't tell my blind friend I refused to help her get around if she didn't carry her cane. I would help her. But you, or someone, said it's very hard as a blind person to navigate for two blind people, or make sure the path is clear for both of you. That requires some pretty crazy/sloppy cane technique, and it's not reliable, hard as the blind person doing the guiding may try. So, I'll certainly help my friend, but I told her I would very much prefer it if she did have her cane, since I didn't feel I could reliably make sure we were both navigating safely.
Leo, my experiences with being raised using a cane were complex. I was given my first cane at the age of four. Initially in my early childhood, I was encouraged to use it, to the point that I was punished if I walked sighted guide with friends in school, for example. So at school I was made to use it, but at home my parents clearly didn't want me bringing it when I went out in public with them. It was a very mixed message. I didn't think too much of it as a young kid. I just saw it as having two different sets of conduct between home and school, and any kid has that in some area or another. It's kind of like how I could scorch the ears of a sailor with my language around my friends, but of course didn't talk that way around my parents and/or teachers. It was just different behavior depending on where I was. The cane thing changed for me when I got my first job in high school. I was using my cane all day in school, plus most evenings and weekends on the job. I got used to having it, which is when I started feeling naked without it. So then I'd go places in public with my parents, and they'd tell me not to bring it or put it away, and I started refusing. When they'd tell me I didn't need it, I promptly told my parents they didn't need their glasses either, they could just hand them over to me or not bring them. Of course their immediate reaction was that they couldn't see without their glasses. I told them I knew perfectly well how to navigate without sight, I'd help them get around and find things. They didn't need those pesky glasses. It dind't take them long to get the point, and their wasn't much of an argument they could make to my logic. So, they figured out pretty fast that my cane was just going to come everywhere with me, and they got used to it.
Ed, your comment cracked me up. Hahahahaha! No, I'd never deliberately run my friend, or any blind person, into something, but yes, my sympathy is way down if they do hit something because they weren't using their cane while walking with me. I'll do as much as I can, but in the end, we all have personal responsibility for our own safety.
I’ve not thought about the embarrassment factor.
I was never asked to not bring my cane, or not use it, so that is interesting or educational to me.
I realize this is much an issue though.
When I was with my sighted wife, or a person, I would sometimes leave my cane in the car, but most times, it was folded and in my hand.
I’ll guide another blind person as I’ve said. This is especially better if you are out with a blind friend, or date for one person to do the driving as I call it, but as pointed out, it requires care.
I guess I don’t care if a person is not comfortable with a travel aid, but that person does need to know it is on them not me if they don’t have it.
A funny example of this is I can’t take a woman to the bathroom. I can bring her to the door, but then what? Lol
This requires me getting a wait staff and sometimes when at a club, just the girl sitting close to us to assist her.
I always wondered how comfortable it was for a female to be helped in the bathroom buy another one they don’t know?
Maybe I should ask. Lol
I’m not shy, but I don’t want some buy watching me pee. Lol.
As to when you have to take other assisted devices, I don't like my pockets full of stuff. It messes up my style, so I've decided to carry a purse.
Many of you have read me teasing about my man purses, but these are extremely handy items.
I put my phone, wallet, headset, and even a small folding cane in side my purse.
I'm thinking about a braille display when I can stop the gritting of my teeth over the price of the damn things. Lol
They have man bags you can even carry your iPad in side. They have a pouch for such things.
Maybe for the person that doesn't like the travel aid, a small folding or telescope cane would be good?
I just can't get used to the idea of a man carrying a purse, though it sure would be handy.
I have no suave or style as does our studley Wayne. I am mere average, so I carry keys, phone, pocketknife and extra cane tip in my front pockets and a wallet and comb in the back one. I use my Coast Guard sea bag for radio gear only if i'm on field exercise, and my disaster supplies backpack for just that purpose.
If I'm with a sighted person, I put the cane into one of my pockets, usually the right one where the keys / knife / tip are. I guess a holster would be nice, but not sure where to get one that would just be a belt clip for the NFB collapsing one. That one ships with a velvety zipper case but the case has no clip, so I'm not sure of its purpose.
I understand what Wayne's saying though. When I was in dress uniform, my pockets had to be used less. So it also is for the more stylish with handsome form-fitted clothes. Mine are merely as I am: clean, plain and steady.
me being a person with enough sight to travel in an area that I know well, or is well lit, I always have a cane or a dog with me because its hard to get complacent with the fact that travel has been relatively safe. the one day I didn't take my cane with me, I sliced my face open on a sign I didn't see. you never know what could happen.
I didn't grow up using a cane. I don't actually remember the first time I was given one, I was young, maybe 5 or so. But the only time I ever used it was in mobility lessons.
I had good cane skills, and so nobody ever really enforced the concept of practising them, as long as I did what I should in the lessons. I walked round my neighborhood and school without one. It wasn't until I transferred schools at the age of 16 that I really realised the impact of not using a cane. I didn't like being guided everywhere. I was reliant on my friends, and it meant everything I did had to fit with their schedule. If I wanted food, I had to eat where they did. If they didn't want to go somewhere, I couldn't. I had to ask people to take me to class and hope I would be able to find someone to get me back.
And it sucked. A lot. I realised that my own resistance was actually hurting me, that not using a cane didn't help me hide my blindness, or make me less obvious. And I wasn't ashamed of being blind, not in the usual sense. I'd quite happily talk about it, and also speak about the necesity to receive equal treatment. But on a personal level I hated it, I really hated myself because of it for a long time.
I knew that being blind meant I was treated differently, and it was as if maybe by removing as many things as possible that made me blind, I would start to fit in. But it obviously doesn't work that way.
So anyway, I started using my cane, and it was a real battle to receive training at that point. I had the skills, but I didn't know how to get anywhere on my own. Services in the UK aren't like they are in the US, there is no guarantee that you will be given that training at all.
The funny thing is, my parents never actively stopped me using a cane. It's just like none of us ever thought to bring it. I would either walk on my own without it or go sighted guide, and no professionals ever said to us when I was a kid that I needed to use it out, so it didn't enter our heads.
I'm glad that I couldn't settle for being reliant, that my personality doesn't allow for that. I wouldn't be where I am today if I had, but I do also understand some of the reasons why people might not use a cane. I think though, you'll reach a point where you can either deal with relying on people for the rest of your life, or you decide that you need to have a serious talk with yourself and make some changes.
I'll admit that sometimes I've carried a huge load of garbage and recycling out without a cane, out and around the block. It's not part of our complex. Lol I know that makes the Wife nervous sometimes, but well, it does happen.
I do remember the times as being a kid I would just go without one in some places but again that has its risks.
If you are going to go without one, you assume all liability. I make no pretense about assuming anyone is responsible for me but me myself.
Wow, so many have friends or relatives embarrassed by a cane. It just irks me, even to hear that.
My family's fine with my cane, but I've been using one since the age of six or seven. A cane's a lot more discreet than a guide dog, but my family seems to dislike the presence of my dogs. I get the sense that they're a little bothered that I don't need to go sighted guide, when I bring my puppy. That's rather a minor thing, though. My sister was adamant, and resorted to tears when I tried to talk it through with her, because she didn't want me to bring my dog to her wedding! She isn't the sort of person who is willing to have difficult conversations (I've been accused of being too dramatic) so we've never discussed it properly, and after ten years, I have to say I'm still pretty resentful and hurt by it, whenever I think of it. I'm not blind by choice, after all! I'm not walking with this labrador just to get attention. I suspect she didn't want attention drawn away from her, on her day, which is utterly ridiculous...as if a dog quietly lying at my feet could do that. And I'm still a bit ticked at myself for having given in, and going out of town and leaving my dog with someone, for the weekend.
Wayne, ah, about your question... I can't believe this topic has come up. *laugh* public restrooms are just awkward, for all of us, I imagine. I avoid them whenever I can. I'm not exactly embarrassed to ask for guidance, except that sometimes people tend to think you need more help than you do. Just show me the door, and go the hell away! LOL
Alicia, it's commendable that you wanna try and understand where your friend and others who share her view of not using a mobility aid of some sort, but honestly, you can't make sense out of nonsense.
I think what it boils down to is laziness, as well as the people who get around that way being content with where they are and in turn unwilling to change their circumstances for the better. They seriously don't see the fact that there is even a problem with the way they do things, nor do they even care that they look like an idiot walking around without a mobility aid of some sort.
In short, I hope the best for your stay with your friend, but I hope you won't feel guilty should you choose not to guide her around--it's difficult enough for just the two of you, I'd imagine.
Leo, why don't you buy some carabiners? I keep a bunch around so that just about anything can be clipped to a belt loop or a purse strap, etc. They are immensely handy. Hmm, I've only ever had folding canes, though. Do straight canes have loops or something to attach a carabiner to?
Anthony, men carry briefcases and laptop bags and backpacks...these things are all variants on a purse, no matter what we call them.
I have one of those fanny pouches that I belt to my side, and it holds my phone, Braille display and even a battery bank. I've also got a Bluetooth headset in there.
This person coming to see Alicia just astounds me. I cannot imagine not even having at least a folding cane in my suitcase or anything at all. even if I can't hear well enough to travel, at least if I have my cane, I can walk and not worry too much about falling in to a hole or off a curb. If I go anywhere with just a sighted guide and no mobility aid at all, I have to know them very very well. Even them, I realize the risk. When Mom was in the car wreck on Christmas eve, I had my cane in my suitcase. If I'd had to call a cab to get home, at least I could have gone out and found the curb and let the driver know that I was the passenger in question.
I hear you, Chelsea. No, I can't make sense out of nonsense. I knew even before I asked that I would still not agree with not using anything, but I wanted to at least try to understand what the rationale was, even if I still didn't agree, because I simply couldn't comprehend it.
Holly, I think you said it best. You reach a point where you're content relying on others, or where you get motivated to do things for yourself. I think because our friend is older, she's in that second category. Again, I don't agree with it, but she's settled for it. She asked me today if I had a spare cane she could use, which I do, so she'll be using that when we travel places. I'd like to try to show her during her time here that blind people can be far more independent than she thinks. You can tell someone that till you're blue in the face, but usually the best way is to demonstrate it. Maybe now that she'll be with us for a little while, we can show her that.
Sometimes I will leave my cane in the car and just go sighted guide with my husband. However usually that is only to the shopping centre, or a cafe or something. I am comfortable doing sighted guide with him, and it's actually enjoyable not having the entire world know I can't see for a while.
I have functioning enough vision that I could just as easily find help if I needed it though, and not fall over myself doing it.
It's usually in the car though, or tucked away in our child's pram, so I can have it if I want it. the cane signifies independence for me, and I like independence.
I don't understand people who are totally lacking in mobility. It's freedom. It's having control over yourself.
So you can wipe yourself and all VioletBlue? Right? hahaha.
Even with my cane I've been asked did I need help. *grin*
I love these bathrooms with the attended though. You walk over to the sink and someone turns on the water.
You hold out your hand and the soap gets in there, and you are handed a real towel to dry off.
They even give you these butt wipe deals in some of them hahaha.
I could imagine if you were in there blind and had no cane. hahaha.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I don’t get the embarrassment about using a cane. The cane is a mobility tool, but it’s also an identity tool, too. So I think it’s more embarrassing to miss visual clues and be thought of as a space case than to just use the cane. There are so, so many little ways that people use sight and body language to convey information. A neighbor lifting a hand in greeting across the street, someone making eye contact in a club, a waitress glancing at you for your order, a friend barely shaking their head in warning not to order something, a drunken Russian ready to fight because you slighted him by not seeing and shaking his outstretched hand at the bar … many of these misunderstandings melt away when you use a mobility device – or some other “symbol” of disability.
VH is responsible for me learning yet a new word: caribiner. Will have to go look that up and see about these.
Yes, men carry bags of all sizes. Lol Anthony up here at least 20 years ago, if you were seen with a fanny pack, you got seen as an Asian groupie. Which I was back in college. Not a fetish person like they talk about now: A groupie. Sort of like these new social justice kids without some of the outrage and no Twitter or sensorship.
From what I understand though, is the man with a man purse it's kind of ideological though. They want the same consideration we would make for a woman's purse.
For instance, regular old man bag ends up on the floor under the seat if you're sitting somewhere. Purse can get set up on the seat next to you the way a woman does. Hard to explain until you're aroubnd them. My city is full of hipsters, so I've seen it in the wild.
Here's something for ya, though, Alicia. I can't criticize your actions: I too have done as you're doing. But it's well worth noting that should you be out of action, the friend is going to be up a creek. Not saying you would be, but this is a good reason for them to bring a mobility aid even if they don't intend to use it. I'm glad you understand your rights, is all.
I have several. I like leather, so all accept one is.
Mine are shoulder bags, similar to a woman's purse, but smaller.
The largest can hold an iPad Mini, or small laptop in a sleeve built for this, plus other items.
The straps on all mine are wide and thick, and a couple also have a carry handle if you want to use it.
I got in to the habit one summer. I had on T shirt and shorts with small pockets and no place really for a wallet, keys, phone, cane.
I stopped at a street vendor that sold women's purses and found a small one. I've never gone back. Lol
My mom calls them my purses, but that's okay.
Some people think there holsters or places to carry a gun.
Shops actually call them man bags, and they are more manly in construction then a woman's purse, but not much.
leo, being the studly coast guard guy that you are I can't elieve you never heard of a carabiner. they are amazing.
here is a tory for you guys. back before I retired, there was this dude that always took the train. he was almost totally blind. people told me how independent he was because he didn't use a cane or a dog. I was like "that's not what I'd say..." one day I came to the train station to go home. there were all these paramedics on the track. I asked wat was up and they said the guy without the cane had walked off the edge of the platform and totten hit while trying to climb up. safety first.
as for being embarrassed... as the mother of two grown children, not muchgets to me. if I do something embarrassing I figure I'm a marriage saver. you know the folk that say "I'm divorcing because I just have nothing to say to him/her anymore..." well, hey they saw me do a really dumb off the wall thing so they have something to discuss for one more day at the dinner table.
actually, if a blind friend turned up for some outing without a mobility aid, I would send them home for one, if it was just the 2 of us. I'm blind too and I am not certain I want to be responsible for another person as well.
I used to keep a couple extra canes in different lengths but haven't recently.
I was doing this for a time when I became single again, and wanted to date blind women.
I didn't have much experience at this accept in college, and all of them had canes, or whatever, so it was a surprise that many just didn't like using a cane, or simply could not.
I didn't, and still don't have lots of blind friends so I didn't know.
I figured if I had a couple it might help at least in terms of them protecting the side I wasn't on.
I also had some parts, so made a couple of them.
I have since given them all away, because they took them home. Lol.
Don't slam me for the wanting to date blind women thing. I've heard it already. Smile.
I keep extra toothbrushes if that's any Consolation..
*Laughing*
Well yeah because we wouldn't want you dating women with bad breath. lmao
You'd be surprised at how many don't bring toothbrushes when they plan to stay over night.
I'm not talking only blind girls, so ladies, keep your shirts on. hahaha.
I have to have spare canes. The wheelchair makes things that much more difficult, and I've learned how to deal.
When I'm shopping withh someone, I hang on the back of the cart, and have to push the chair. I usually travel with a lighter manual, so it's not too hard on me.
Having hearing loss, I have to deal with hearing the cost, or the something found, rather than the other things. I've had to accept there's some things I can't do, right now. And I do what I can..
If I'm with other blind people, I always have a cane. It's also been that I've had to admit defeat, and ask for help in unfamiliar places. I guess, I've learned that if I'm traveling to sommewhere, come more prepared, than not.
II'm glad that not many would ask my help to guide them. LOL
Blessings,
Sarah
Wayne, to answer your much earlier comment about wondering what it was like for a female to get assistance in a public bathroom from a stranger, I have had to do that on two occasions. Both were when I went to concerts at an outdoor amphitheater with my brother in one case and with a date on another occasion. Both times were very hot summer nights, and I had been drinking bottled water and soft drinks to try to stay cool. Unfortunately I needed to use the facilities before the show even started. My brother took me to the end of the line of women waiting outside to get into the bathroom and asked the lady in front of me if she could help his blind sister. She was very nice about letting me hold her arm and walk sighted guide, and once we were inside she helped me find an open stall. When I came out of the stall, she didn't seem to be anywhere around. I could tell where the sinks were by the sound of other women washing their hands, so I found a sink and washed up and then just asked the woman next to me if I should turn left and go out the way I came in or if there was another exit. Sure enough, the exit was in the opposite direction. I found my way out, and my brother was waiting for me. The time I was on a date, it pretty much happened the same way, except that I had to put up with the lady helper telling me all about how she once met a blind person, and this seemed to make her think that she and I had a lot in common, so I had to put up with her constant chatter. But at least she did actually wait for me and led me out of the facilities when we were both done.
I've had similar things happen. But, my dad and I worked out a system, when we're having a family thing. I text him or call him on my IPhone, and he knows I'm ready. People here, find it creepy, for guys waiting near the Ladies' room. I understand, so I just deal.
The problem I have, is there's usually one stall I can use. So I usually ask where it is, unless I know the specific rest room. Then, I do pretty good.
Blessings,
Sarah
To whoever it was that said a cane or a dog are mobility tools, you hit the nail on the head. They are each a sign that people who are disabled are and can be independent. Whereas, not using anything at all, displays that disabled people would rather rely on someone who is able-bodied to hold their hand.
I don't know if I've ever talked about this here, but I used to be in the camp of not using any type of mobility aids--I did it cause I was under the impression that doing so made me look "normal," if you will, or able-bodied. No one told me any differently, so I kept it up...till I started running into things cause I, you know, couldn't see as well as I'd thought I could.
Fortunately it didn't take me long to change what had become a bad habit, and it's hard to believe I actually took my insecurities that far. So, now that I think about it, insecurity plays a huge role in why people do this. Insecurity, and being hard-assed through trying to make people believe you can really see, and aren't as disabled as they think you are.
Personally, if a friend of mine wanted to come visit without bringing their mobility aid along, I wouldn't let them--I am not gonna be responsible if something were to happen to someone because of their stupid choice not to watch out for themselves. That's just me though.
When I'm in a public place or at work, I bring along and use my cane. When on a date however, I either leave it at home or in the car. I too, enjoy holding hands with my date and not be that "blind girl" for a short while.
as far as dates go, it depends how long I have been with that person. if they are just getting to know me, I take my stick. I have something to prove, afterall. I want them to know I can damn well get along by myself. the first time I came to Sweden I refused to do sighted guide with Johan and instead used my cane to show him that I was highly capable and I wasn't just a vulnerable waif.
Wow. I can't imagine travelling anywhere without my cane. Strangely
enough, the *THOUGHT* of being in a position where I was
completely reliant on a sighted person causes a vague sense of dread.
Interesting again.
I would think a girl silly on a date proving she was capable. I want to hold her hand, not test her travel skills. Lol, but okay.
Kind of like saying I'll drive. Lol.
I'd feel odd she wasn't walking with me.
I mean, we're on a date? Lol
My biggest trouble, is finding a holster that will "stay" on my arm of my chair. Any good ideas? It's nice just to have somewhere to stick it... The cane, I mean.
When I'm getting on a lift or ramp, canes are impossible. I have some feeling in my feet, and use that to tell the direction the chair is going, and to see I don't fall off. I use thin soles for chair travel, and thick ones for balance, when using a walker.
Blessings,
Sarah
Agrees with Wayne on his last post...
To borrow another user’s expression from another thread because it made me smile by its simple eloquence… Goody on you!!! Since the men with whom I’ve dated were the ones to asked me out and by the meer fact I’ve excepted, there were enough mutural interests, admiration and respect for us to proceed to the dating stage… These are the people I’ve met through friends, work/volunteer/school/gym, so they already have a good idea of who I am and what I am capable of! I’ve always been treated by these men as an equal partner … Nothing more, and nothing less! Furthermore, I am secure enough as a person that I don’t have a mad desire in needing to prove that I am a super duper blind woman simply because I perform my daily tasks without sight… There’s nothing special or unique about this fact, nor does it requires special super power. Lol. – Different strokes and all that I suppose…
I can still hold hands with my date and use my cane. I frequently have done.
Since Johan doesn't use a cane, this was easy. holding hands is not sighted guide though, and I don't treat it as such.
I'd never go without a cane, and it's not because I am trying to prove independence. I just feel vulnerable without it, naked, as Domestic goddess and others said, above.
Going sighted guide is convenient and companionable, and not just for the guidance--that's actually secondary, to me. I like being able to carry on conversation, easily, or to keep track of someone in a crowd, be close to a person, if it's my significant other, but a cane is still essential, IMO.
When I go to my dad's place I sometimes don't bring my cane, because I know where we're going and I know I'm not going to need it. If we're going out in public though (on errands, or to several different places on the way) then I'll bring it in case. I'm okay with holding someone's arm in a supermarket or something. I don't think it's a sin to be willing to go sighted guide with someone you know, and I'm willing enough.
That said, I also don't think you should be getting around that way all the time as an adult, not unless you're in a situation where you never ever go out without a person who's willing to guide. I couldn't imagine getting to school and back without my cane, for instance. I'd probably manage, but it'd be slow and awkward and dangerous.
Alicia, if I was the friend in question I'd damn well bring the cane. And I might get to a point where I was okay with being guided, but when it's another blind person it's harder...because even if they know an area, they make mistakes.
Kind of a sad/funny story for ya. My first girlfriend wanted to understand what it was like to travel blind, so I used a couple of scarves and put them over her eyes. Then I proceeded to put her on my left arm, and walked to our high school. It was a weekend and no one was around so I figured it'd be safe. I told her that if she started to panic, we'd stop right away. it was going just fine...until I misjudged exactly where the flagpole was, and she ggot it in the head. We weren't going too fast and she wasn't hurt, but it scared the hell out of her; the flagpole was pretty much smack in the middle of a wide-open space in front of the school so it's fool's luck I hit it in the first place. Needless to say I felt bloody awful about that. But it proved the point. I was being pretty careful and I still made a mistake and got someone bashed into something. No thanks. If we're both blind and I'm expected to guide you, please bring your mobility aid.
Hi, all. Couple things here. Chelsea, you're right, insecurity is why some people do it, especially if they have some remaining vision. They're trying to prove they can still use that vision, but often wind up looking more foolish because they run into things. Or even worse, it's a safety problem, like they fall down stairs because they can't see the stairs were there, but had no cane. As flawed as that kind of thinking is, I at least know why it exists. It's much harder for me to understand in the case of people who are totally blind, and so have no vision to even try to rely on.
I actually do get what loui was talking about, wanting to prove herself capable on her first date. If I had to guess, (and Loui please correct me if I'm wrong), she was trying to show that she wasn't needing or looking for a caretaker, because she is perfectly capable of taking care of herself. Many people, when going on a date with a blind person, think they have to assume the role of caretaker, and I'm guessing she wanted to show that wasn't the case. Am I halfway right on that?
Things with my friend have been interesting. On Friday four of us went out together, all of us blind. I think our visiting friend figured out real fast why I asked her to bring the spare cane I'd lent her. she didn't start out using it, but was doing so by the time we were done that day. I also think it was an eye-opener, so to speak, to be out with three other blind people, going places independently, using very little sighted assistance with the exception of the Uber drivers who took us to the various locations we went. But she was so surprised by even the littlest things, like us being able to find our way to and from restaurant to car, or car to whatever other building, on our own. I pointed out that the way we were navigating was largely due to our canes. Part of me can't believe she's the age she is and so sheltered. Another part wants to be angry at her for allowing herself to live so long that way. But, under all that, most of me is glad that just maybe, we can start to show her it doesn't half to be that way.
I know some of the schools just figure: "It's not necessary." I've seen this before, and people who could read as kids, are illiterate, cause they lose their vision. Save a buck, deprive a child. Kind of sad, I think.
Blessings,
Sarah
Shadow Cat, you got it exactly right. I'm not looking for a care taker, and if that's what they want to do for me on a first date, they can bloody well go and find some other girl. I don't want my disability being any kind of focus point on a date, so I tell people outright that I will ask for help if I need it. It does result in my dates having gotten some filthy looks but I tell them to deal with it. it's other people's issue, not mine.
By refusing to be lead and using your cane as a point to show your date how independent you are does exactly that. It puts focus on your disability on the first date. Lol
But no matter, you got hitched, so you're set.
Me I want a date, not a girl trying to prove anything. She can do that some other time.
Next what she can and can't do isn't important on a date as far as her travel skills. I don't care. We're out for a reason, meaning I like her already. Lol
Alicia, I don't think the reasons differ as to why people choose not to use mobility aids, cause totally blind people can be incredibly insecure and wanna try and prove something too. I also think those people have many false misconceptions that they aren't willing to admit to, cause they're so set in their ways.
That being said, it sounds like there may be hope for your friend. I hope so, cause I know how truly free her life will be if she ever becomes confident in using a mobility aid of her choice.
wayne, not the same way.
by taking my cane I already prove when I turn up that I am independent and can walk about on my own. I pretty much always do online dating, and here in Sweden noone does this guy picks up girl thing. both parties catch public transport and meet wherever they are meeting.
It's not often someone goes to pick up their date here, and people also split the bill.
I don't think I'm talking about a Swedish thing.
I'm only centered on a blind thing.
I know people split the bill and such. They do this here in America.
They even use public transport and meet the date.
What I'm specificly talking about it a girl feeling she needs to prove something when what I'd really like her to be doing is walking close to me, holding my hand, and enjoying the evening dido the blind stuff.
indepentant is wonderful, I agree, but in my book on a date, she can stow it.
Maybe I'm old fashioned or whatever, but a date isn't the time or place to be proving anything.
Okay, sorry about the rant. Lol
Excuse the bad typing too. I'm on a date.
I think you're old fashioned.
for a start, holding hands is not sighted guide. I would not feel confident just holding hands with someone and then trusting that person to guide me arounde. If I want a person to guide me, it's sighted guide or I am using my mobility aid.
I can still hold hands with my date and use my cane. no problem. I use my cane in stockholm often while holding hands with Johan.
I agree with Forereel. How about linking arms, not technically sighted guide, and not holding hands. Nice!
Trying to follow someone with a cane is often awkward and clumsy. Maybe if you have partial vision it's easier?
Yes, I don't mean holding hands specificly.
Linking arms. Arms around waist.
It isn't like regular guiding, it is sort of like we are going up the work way.
I'm a blind man.
If I walk with a blind girl, she sort of uses her cane as a reference not a tool.
Now wiith a seeing girl, I just link arms or something.
I might even put my arm around the girls shoulders, blind or seeing.
If she has a dog, I let the dog do the work.
I guess the thing I too fight with was the proving I am able bit.
With a blind girl, we have to keep up with each other, and this is expecially difficult in a crowded place,.
I don't know if you go out dancing, but if you're in a crowded club and people are all over the place, you'll lose your date.
Same with a concert, or one of these outside fairs.
You could be 4 feet away and have 8 people between you and your date, so you have to holler "where are you!" Lol
Even with a seeing girl, I've gotten separated, and she's had to sort of pus through the crowd to push back to me.
We'll be buying drinks or something, and people squeeze between us if we're not attached.
On a crowded dance floor, you have to fold your cane up and put it someplace, or you trip folks.
Some eating places have steps, and you name it. Lol
If you are alone, it is much easier to walk about or with a friend, because it isn't cozy.
A date, I want her near.
I even like to sit on the same side of the table.
Yep, old fashion Lol
same side of the table? most sighted people I know would find that wierd. sighted people like to sit across from their date, so they can look into their faces. I like this too, because I have some vision. it's like....you can see your date straight on, but you're not too close for a first or second date.
Yes. Actually a woman that can see taught me this.
She thought it was more romantic.
I have heard an understand about sitting across so you can look at the person.
She told me she could just turn her head, or see me from the side of her visual field.
I like it now.
She also liked to feed me, so it was easier to do this sitting next to me.
Her and a group of girls took the guys out to eat. They ordered stuff and told the waiter to put it all on a platter.
The guys didn't receive any food infromt of us, so we had to be fed.
It was fun.
I have my cane with me almost at all times, even if I'm not using it. On a rare occasion, I might leave it in the car if I'm doing sighted guide and we're just running in somewhere to pick up one thing, etc. I was actually taught that the proper way to do sighted guide is to hold the cane slightly tilted at one o'clock in your free hand while you are grasping the upper arm of the sighted guide with the other hand. I don't always do that, sometimes my cane is folded.
That all being said, I don't get the judgment. It's one thing if another blind person is expecting you to be their complete guidance; you (the collective you, not any one person here) have every right to decline.
But why is it we're not allowed to say anything against people who want to be in a polyamorous relationship or in a domination/submissive relationship but we can let fly free on this topic? Isn't this just another lifestyle choice?
A human being is another mobility aid, one with his or her own free will of course.
While I understand that if people are sighted they like to sit across from their date or whatever, that is not most blind people's preference, mine included. I like the closeness sitting next to each other provides. Wayne touched on that quite well.
actually I think it has to do with how old of a couople you are. when some couples are new, they want to sit close and touch or nearly so. s the couple gets along in its relationship the looking in to each others eyes is more important. it also could be a cultural thing.
I too prefer sitting next to my partner rather than across from. I get it for sighted people, or visually impaired ones who still use their vision a lot. I'm sure eye contact is very appealing. Since, as a blind person I rely on tactile cues, and also like to be able to hear better, I also prefer sitting on the same side of the table.
VH, I think the thing in this case is that it puts a blind person's safety at risk to go out with no mobility aid of their own, aside from a human who, potentially, the blind person can become separated from, or who may become incapacitated in case of emergency. Yes, that probably sounds overdramatic, but I've heard of things like that happening. Even most guide dog schools strongly recommend carrying a spare cane when traveling with the dog in case there is need. But in the end, when Mark and my friend goes back home, for example, she'll probably return to her traveling completely dependent on others. I don't get it, but you are right about one thing, it is her choice. As for not being allowed to say something against someone being in a polyamorous or dom/sub relationship, who says we're not? That's free speech. Sure, the opinions against may not be real popular, but we're allowed to voice them. just as we are on this topic. I see no difference.
For some reason, I hear better when someone's across from me. Maybe, it's the particular hearing aides I use.
As far as dancing, I'm not much for really crowded places. If I'm going to do something with a crowd involved, let it be Kerioki. *Grins*
Blessings,
Sarah
I wish I could dance but there's no way in hell. lol I'm all about some karaoke though.
VH, trying to compare relationship styles to people's safety, is a non-issue--I don't even get why you bring that up, as they are two very different things.
Yeah, Karaoke! I haven't gone in a while, but would like to. gotta get to work on some new tunes, first though. I usually do country songs. Reba. Patsy. Pam Tillis.
I'd love to be able to dance, but, well that's just a bundle of embarrassment waiting to happen. LOL
Shadow Cat, I agree on the safety thing personally, but people have different ideas on what is an acceptable risk to take.
Chelsea, it is not totally different. I'm meerely pointing out that it is different strokes for different folks. It's all about perspective and outlook. People engage in all kinds of risky behavior that puts safety on the line for jobs, for hobbies, you name it.
Like dancing? *grin.
Any woman that would like to try it, I'm available to take you.
You can even leave your cane at home. hahaha.